[Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
Nafset Chenib
nafsetik at gmail.com
Tue Sep 6 12:08:03 EDT 2022
Thank you so much for all these suggestions.
They don’t know yet how to go about all these, neither do I. At least now I have something to offer to them. I am deeply grateful to all who responded to me. Now it seems feasible somehow.
Best regards,
Nafset
> On Sep 6, 2022, at 12:02 PM, Bill McCann via Menvi-discuss <menvi-discuss at menvi.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Nafset,
>
> If I understand correctly, the school has provided individual transcriptions of each part of the score instead of the score format. That is, you have been given each instrumental part that would be given to each player. For example, the first flute part, the second flute part, the first violin part, etc.
>
> If that is the situation, my recommendation would be for you to make a request for a braille transcription of the full score. I hope that the provision of individual parts in braille instead of the full score was the result of an oversight or miscommunication with the braille music transcriber on the part of the people from the school who ordered your music to be transcribed.
>
> If for some unimaginable reason someone at the school should deny your request, I would urge you to file a written complaint stating that, if the school will only provide you with individual parts instead of a full score, that they do so for all of their sighted students. No sighted musician would be expected to answer questions about the form and harmony of a piece with just the individual parts to study.
>
> Please let us know how it goes.
>
> Hello from Dancing Dots.
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Menvi-discuss <menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org> On Behalf Of Sandra Gayer via Menvi-discuss
> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 11:23 AM
> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy <menvi-discuss at menvi.org>
> Cc: Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
>
> Hello Nafset,
> I would like to echo the excellent suggestions already posted here. If you have been given a piece of music as a score analysis question, regardless of whether it's for voice and piano or full symphony orchestra, you should be given a version where the parts are stacked vertically. In an orchestral score, that can feel painful as sometimes it's a bar to a page. I would argue that hearing the music in your head is exactly what you should be aiming for. I teach Braille Music and I encourage my students to build their, as it were, inner walkman, from the very beginning. I have rarely come across harmony instruments being permitted in an exam situation. Normally, in a theory exam such as those provided by ABRSM, you are expected to answer the questions, using no more equipment than the exam paper, something to write with and your own brain cells.
>
> Definitely apply for the extra time you are entitled to.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 9/6/22, Nafset Chenib via Menvi-discuss <menvi-discuss at menvi.org> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Thank you so much for all the suggestions.
>>
>> Dear Bill,
>>
>> Unfortunately, my university decided not to buy Dancing Dots software
>> package as I am the only student who needs it. So I haven idea how
>> they are going to deal with the scores. But thank you so much for this information.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Nafset
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Bill McCann via Menvi-discuss
>>> <menvi-discuss at menvi.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for these helpful answers.
>>>
>>> Nafset, just in case people are using Lime and GOODFEEL to prepare
>>> these materials for you, they should know that there is an option to
>>> braille all parts together as a score.
>>>
>>> From Lime, choose “Launch in Manual Mode” under Lime’s File menu.
>>> Click the Format tab. Check “Braille all parts together” and then
>>> click the Process button.
>>>
>>> GOODFEEL will produce score format.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Menvi-discuss <menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org> On Behalf Of
>>> Stephanie Pieck via Menvi-discuss
>>> Sent: Monday, September 5, 2022 10:00 PM
>>> To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
>>> <menvi-discuss at menvi.org>
>>> Cc: Stephanie Pieck <themusicsuite at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> These are terrific suggestions, and I'll add a few of my own pointers
>>> from taking higher-level ABRSM theory exams from braille test papers.
>>> Those exams usually contained at least one set of questions based on
>>> analysis of an orchestral score beginning at Grade 5.
>>>
>>> One workaround for writing chord symbols or other things without
>>> actually being able to braille on the score might be to use a
>>> computer with voice output and create a spreadsheet using Excel or
>>> some other spreadsheet software. That way, you could create a page
>>> for each measure, with one column for each beat or division of a
>>> beat. If you have trouble with transposing instruments (which I
>>> always did not being a brass or wind player), you could use the
>>> spreadsheet to write everything out in concert pitch, then use that to work out chords etc.
>>>
>>> Usually, orchestral scores in braille are written bar over bar, with
>>> an abbreviation at the start of each new braille line telling which
>>> instrument part you are reading.
>>>
>>> ABRSM allows braille-reading candidates extra time for their theory
>>> exams, and you may wish to ask for this accommodation. You may also
>>> wish to ask for an amenuensis to write your answers in print; this is
>>> another accommodation ABRSM provides for its theory exams.
>>>
>>> I would also suggest you find as many orchestral scores as you can to
>>> practice on ahead of your exam. Orchestration books can be a good
>>> source of these, and there are also transcriptions of symphonies and
>>> other works you can access. I'm sorry I don't know the exact websites
>>> where to locate possible resources, but perhaps others on this list
>>> can provide links to steer anyone interested in the right direction.
>>>
>>> If you're looking over braille orchestral scores, or even just scores
>>> for multiple instruments (string quartets, for instance), you might
>>> also try following along in the braille while listening to an online
>>> recording. One of the great things about YouTube is that you can slow
>>> down the playback using the "Settings" feature. This will allow you
>>> to choose one instrumental part and follow it as you listen.
>>>
>>> For quick-and-dirty analysis purposes, first focus on instruments
>>> that generally carry the melody and the bass line (i.e., double
>>> basses and/or tubas in orchestra for the bass line, violins, high
>>> woodwinds and brass for melody). Focusing on the string parts and
>>> non-transposing woodwinds like flute and oboe can also give you a
>>> rough idea of what you're dealing with.
>>>
>>> Finally, be sure you know the names of instruments in at least
>>> English, Italian, German, and French.
>>>
>>> I hope some of this might be useful.
>>>
>>> Stephanie Pieck
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jeanie Willis via Menvi-discuss
>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2022 7:53 PM
>>> To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
>>> Cc: Jeanie Willis
>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
>>>
>>> Hi Nafset,
>>>
>>> I would be interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this in the
>>> group as it doesn't sound correct to me that you are being given a
>>> score with all individual parts. I think you need to check exactly
>>> what your sighted peers are being given. Are they being given a
>>> score or are they being given individual instrument parts. If they
>>> are being given a score with parts written above each other for the
>>> various instruments then that is what you should get also, done in
>>> bar over bar as it is an unfair disadvantage for you to be given
>>> individual parts if that isn't what your sighted peers are working from.
>>>
>>> If they are all getting individual parts then that is tough, but I
>>> guess you need to find some way of marking what bar you are up to on
>>> each score, a pin of some sort that you move along maybe if it is
>>> hard copy braille and you would need them loose not bound so you can
>>> spread them out and reference each. If you are working on a digital
>>> display then for single parts maybe they could give you them as
>>> separate files. I don't know if there is a way of keeping each open
>>> and flicking between them with the focus staying at the correct point
>>> in each file, I haven't used this kind of thing yet. I would say in
>>> general though for a music exam you need hard copy.
>>>
>>> Whatever you use you need some way to take notes bar by bar writing
>>> out the chords.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Menvi-discuss On Behalf Of Nafset Chenib via Menvi-discuss
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2022 11:37 AM
>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>> <menvi-discuss at menvi.org>
>>> Cc: Nafset Chenib <nafsetik at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
>>>
>>> Thank you so much dear Jeanie,
>>>
>>> Many things are hard to understand. But, first of all, there’s no
>>> such a thing as vertical alignment in the Braille score. All the
>>> parts will be written separately. Of course, it would be easier to
>>> deal with the piano piece, but that’s not guaranteed. Did you try the
>>> tips you suggested? Did it work out, say, for orchestral pieces?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Nafset
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 5, 2022, at 7:27 PM, Jeanie Willis via Menvi-discuss
>>>> <menvi-discuss at menvi.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nafset,
>>>>
>>>> Since I haven't posted before first let me introduce myself. My
>>>> name is Jeanie and I am a totally blind music teacher from New
>>>> Zealand. I have only recently learnt Braille music, but as a
>>>> partially sighted person for the rest of my life did a Bachelor of
>>>> Music mainly in theory and harmony and analysis back in the 90s and
>>>> then a teaching diploma to teach secondary school. So I might be able to help you.
>>>>
>>>> But as I said I am fairly new to Braille music, so please if I say
>>>> anything that sounds incorrect can someone correct me as I am also
>>>> still wanting to learn!
>>>>
>>>> I am not quite sure from your question whether you are having to
>>>> analyse a piano score or a larger score for full or part orchestra.
>>>> Either way I would hope you are being given extra reading time as
>>>> part of your exam, and if not that is the first thing I would ask for.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like you are facing two problems. How to create a system
>>>> to do the theory and make notes as you go when if I was doing this
>>>> on print I would be writing things all over the score as I worked them out.
>>>> Secondly, it sounds like some of your need might be in the theory
>>>> area as most students are being expected in an exam like this to
>>>> work things out by theory rules rather than try to actually hear the score in their head.
>>>> Print reading students would face the same problem as you with not
>>>> being able to hear the music to work these things out.
>>>>
>>>> So for the first problem If you are tackling a full orchestral or
>>>> score with lots of parts check the transcribers notes for whether
>>>> all chords read up. I have been told for theory based exams they
>>>> often do this rather than the treble chords reading down and bass
>>>> notes up. If you have a score with lots of instruments written bar
>>>> over bar, and some transpose and some are treble reading down and
>>>> some bass up you will need to know what each instrument line is to
>>>> work out the chords. I think you need a Perkins in the exam so you
>>>> can Braille down the side of a page the list of instruments in the
>>>> same line format as your score, then remove the paper, cut it into a
>>>> strip that you can attach to the score with a bit of blue tack,
>>>> moving it along the score bar by bar so you always have reference
>>>> just to the left of every bar as to what instrument you are reading
>>>> for. Then whether on a large score like this or a piano or vocal
>>>> score, the only way to work out harmonic progressions, modulations
>>>> etc is to start working beat by beat vertically from the bottom up
>>>> to name all the notes and see what the chord is, ignoring anything
>>>> that looks like a passing note. This is where you need to come up
>>>> with a system to take notes as if I was doing this in print I would
>>>> have written the chord symbols or roman numerals below the score and
>>>> then looked for patterns that suggest a modulation. So maybe
>>>> consider either in Braille with your perkins or on a separate blank
>>>> word document on whatever laptop or tablet you are using for the
>>>> exam I would create a table that I could note down the chord
>>>> progression bar by bar and beat by beat. So make sure there is
>>>> provision within the exam for how you can do working out rough bits
>>>> on the equivalent of a scrap piece of paper. I don’t' know if there
>>>> is any value in using any sort of tactile markers on the score
>>>> itself to come back to a certain point more quickly that you have
>>>> identified and whether therefore having more than 1 copy of the
>>>> score may be of use incase you muck up one bit and can't read it
>>>> easily and keep one clean. Another pointer would always be to seek out the instrument with the melody first and read through some of that to orientate yourself around the score and note any reoccurring accidentals that might indicate that key change.
>>>>
>>>> Have you also thought of requesting two scores. One transcribed
>>>> notes only and one with all other details. This could be crucial in
>>>> speeding up reading where you just need the notes and then move to
>>>> the complete score when you need further details. I would find it
>>>> much quicker to do an analysis of chords for example without
>>>> articulation, dynamics, fingering, bowing instructions etc getting in the way.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't know how to spot a modulation within the chords then
>>>> that is more of a specific theory question and I could give you a
>>>> few pointers if you want to e-mail me off list or you could also ask
>>>> for more help from your tutors in that area or check out the AB
>>>> Guide to Music Theory by Eric taylor which I saw on the RNIB library website in braille yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps
>>>> Jeanie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Menvi-discuss On Behalf Of Nafset Chenib via Menvi-discuss
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2022 5:06 AM
>>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>>> <menvi-discuss at menvi.org>
>>>> Cc: Nafset Chenib <nafsetik at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [Menvi-discuss] Music analysis in real time
>>>>
>>>> Hi dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I hope you had a restful summer.
>>>>
>>>> I have a question regarding music analysis in real time. One of the
>>>> parts of my second qualifying exam assumes an analysis of two
>>>> pieces in real time (I believe we have to complete it within three
>>>> hours). The only thing we can use is just the score. I never faced
>>>> such a situation, even though I was engaging with the music analysis
>>>> quite a lot. However, beside the Braille score, I used to have an
>>>> assistant who could play and repeat the excerpts from a piece as
>>>> needed or who could clarify some points; For instance, non-standard
>>>> modulations—the latter is crucial for me as I don't have a perfect
>>>> pitch. Furthermore, it has never been a time bound project. Of
>>>> course, the ideal situation was when I new the piece from memory so
>>>> that I could play it on piano by myself or, in case with the vocal
>>>> music, at least to sing the vocal line. But my qualifier exam is
>>>> obviously different. What should I do if I am asked, say, to analyze
>>>> the harmonic progressions in measures 34-42 of a certain piece. I
>>>> feel like Braille score is not very helpful in this situation,
>>>> unless I ask to provide me with some time to learn it so that I can
>>>> play it on piano (though we are not supposed to use it). Our
>>>> university has Disability Services Office, and they are willing to
>>>> help, but they never faced such a situation as I am the first
>>>> musicology student there. They don’t know how to go about this exam and asked me whether I have any ideas, but I am not sure what to offer.
>>>>
>>>> I know that there are music theorists on this least. Could you
>>>> please share your experience. I study musicology, but I think in
>>>> this situation there’s no much difference for musicologists and
>>>> theorists. I would greatly appreciate any insights you might provide me with.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so very much.
>>>>
>>>> Happy labour day.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Nafset
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>> ---------
>>>
>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>> change your delivery, or set any other options available to you,
>> please view the list information page below. Should you have any
>> questions, please contact the owner of the list.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>
> Soprano Singer
> www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>
> Actor
> www.visablepeople.com
>
> Voiceover Artist
> www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer
>
> ---------
>
> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe, change your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view the list information page below. Should you have any questions, please contact the owner of the list.
> _______________________________________________
> Menvi-discuss mailing list
> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
> ---------
>
> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe, change your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view the list information page below. Should you have any questions, please contact the owner of the list.
> _______________________________________________
> Menvi-discuss mailing list
> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
> http://mail.menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
More information about the Menvi-discuss
mailing list