[Menvi-discuss] Note reading

Bettie Downing bnbdowning70 at embarqmail.com
Thu Jan 17 18:10:08 EST 2013 

Well, the transcribers have the hard work to do for you and I always say a little break for the reader is a good thing.  They have to memorize all of that music most of the time and to me that is VERY difficult.  I don't memorize well.



On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Dale Lieser wrote:

> OK. I understand the facsimile aspect. The transposing instruments one
> confuses me. But I don't do well with transposing instruments anyway. :)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
> Bettie Downing
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:48 PM
> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
> 
> In the Manual (Introduction to Braille Music Transcription) which
> transcribers use to learn the Code and then to become certified there is a
> Chapter 10 that describes how one brailles music in different clefs.  In
> fact, their examples begin in one clef and move to another so in facsimile
> one would notify the reader that the clef is changing but the notes in the
> BRAILLE would look the same whether you put the clef sign or NOT.  If the
> music is written for a transposing instrument with no change in clefs one
> just writes the notes as they appear in the music. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Dale Lieser wrote:
> 
>> In which situations do you include clef indications?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
>> Bettie Downing
>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:29 PM
>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>> 
>> Really?  As a transcriber I've never seen that and it's not in the Manual.
>> When it's in a different clef we are told to put the clef sign to alert
> the
>> reader to the print but we still write the notes as the proper pitch.
>> Sounds like you're describing something new to me.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Dale Lieser wrote:
>> 
>>> I think what we're talking about here, though, concerns the difference
>>> between a typical transcription vs. a facsimile transcription. In the
>>> former, the braille reader encounters little of the nature of the print
>>> music system. But in the latter, a much less common method, but very
>>> valuable in some teaching or learning situations, the transcriber has
> code
>>> available to more closely communicate what takes place in the print
>>> notation, such as clef changes, octave-lower or -higher symbols, etc.
>>> 
>>> Dale
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Bettie Downing
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:08 PM
>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>>> 
>>> No.  I already explained that.  Print is different from braille.  You
> know
>>> print uses lines and spaces and because of instruments in different keys
>>> (Not C like the flute, but B-flat like the clarinet or trumpet or some in
>> F)
>>> they use different clefs and the middle C is not located on the same line
>>> that it is in a G clef.
>>> 
>>> The transcriber must transpose the clef and put the correct octave for
> the
>>> actual pitch for the blind reader.  It's a headache for a transcriber,
>>> believe me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 3:44 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
>>> 
>>>> how is braille written for fixed do? I've never heard anybody make that
>>> assertion.
>>>> and, isn't something written for alto cleff the same in braille as it
>>> would be for any other cleff, except for the octave signs?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> At 11:46 AM 1/17/2013, you wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I sight read just fine without learning the music ahead of time. We
>>> actually just were introduced to alto clef and everyone followed me
>> because
>>> I was the best at reading in that arcane cleff!
>>>>> Open-mouthed smile
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course I must see the format of the music before hand and trust
> there
>>> are no signs I don't know, or jumps I can't make. I'm also horrible when
>> it
>>> comes to keeping within the right octave. I don't like moveable do when
>>> Braille is written for the fixed do.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: <mailto:SClark6144 at aol.com>SClark6144 at aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:55 PM
>>>>> To: <mailto:menvi-discuss at menvi.org>menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>>>>> 
>>>>> For sight reading music, the blind student should always have the music
>>> ahead of time to learn it.  My student who played violin did the sight
>>> reading at contests with the other students, and we got the music ahead
> of
>>> time so he could learn it.  They said he couldn't do it because he
>> couldn't
>>> see, so I had to fight for it, but I got the message across...it's done
>> that
>>> way in the UK also.  I figured if he felt he couldn't do it, he would
>>> disqualify himself...no one should do that for him.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In a message dated 1/16/2013 2:58:43 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>>> MWalker at oceansideschools.org writes:
>>>>> Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  I will share them with my TVI
>>> and other colleagues.  I have taught students with a variety of special
>>> needs over the years.  I have been teaching a student who is blind for
> the
>>> past two and a half years in general music.  She is in a class with 22
>>> sighted students.  I have done my best to give her the tools she will
> need
>>> to be an independent musician, however we are at the point (3rd grade)
>> where
>>> the lessons progress into more complicated sight reading.  My student is
>>> still learning to read literary braille so I understand the debate about
>>> when to teach braille music very well.  The TVI in my building is a first
>>> year teacher and doesn't have much experience with music.  We are trying
>> to
>>> navigate how and when it is appropriate to teach note reading.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is invaluable for me to hear what is done in other schools in order
>> to
>>> contribute to our discussion on how to handle note reading.  I'm not a
>>> stickler for note reading but I believe that all of my students should be
>>> taught to learn music both aurally and through reading for precisely the
>>> reasons Mr. McCann stated when he said, "But learning by ear can remove
> us
>>> from the source of the information because we end up mimicking the
>>> interpretation of whoever read that score and realized it."  This is
>>> precisely the reason why we teach note reading to any student.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks again for all of your input. I've already learned a great deal
>>> since joining this group over the summer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mary A. Walker
>>>>> School #3 Music Teacher
>>>>> Oceanside School District
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----------
>>>>> From: Menvi-discuss [menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
>>> SClark6144 at aol.com [SClark6144 at aol.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:00 PM
>>>>> To: menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wonder just how Laurie would notate music, other than linearly.  She
>>> doesn't offer a better way.  I don't mean to be sarcastic, but a print
>>> reader can see, and print music is a visual representation of sound.
>>> Braille music is linear because the reader cannot see it.  When I did
>>> research for my book, I found some examples of raised print music (the
>>> pictures are in my book) that people had attempted to use for blind
>> readers.
>>> Obviously, that was not successful.  It's one thing to look at notes on a
>>> staff and quite another to touch the whole picture (which is what it is)
>> and
>>> try to figure out what it is.
>>>>> Syl
>>>>> 
>>>>> In a message dated 1/16/2013 1:36:52 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>>> bnbdowning70 at embarqmail.com writes:
>>>>> Amen to that!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Dale Lieser wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well stated, Bill.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Bill
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:09 PM
>>>>>> To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Ms. Walker,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here's a quote from an interview Laurie Rubin gave to the Wall Street
>>> Journal blog:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "There is braille notation, but I don't tend to use it. I came to
>>> braille music very late. The thing that I don't like is that it's so
>> linear,
>>> and you're taking in everything piecemeal. A sighted person can look at a
>>> whole score and they can see where it's going. When you're looking at
>>> braille music, it's note by note by note. It just gives me the willies.
>> It's
>>> like putting thread through a needle. It's painstaking. I do most
>> everything
>>> by ear."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So Miss Rubin would not seem to be a valuable source of encouragement
>>> on the topic of note-reading in braille.  One excellent singer who
>>> completely understands how braille music works and how to integrate it
>> into
>>> her own work is Jessica Bachicha.  I am not sure if she is a subscriber
> on
>>> this MENVI listserv but I am sure that she is a member.  You should be
>> able
>>> to find her listed in the MENVI directory.  In addition, there are
>> numerous
>>> subscribers here who know a great deal about the subject as many of us
> are
>>> blind musicians who have used braille music for a long time.  That is,
> you
>>> have come to the right place to ask.  J
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> An observation on Rubin's quote: yes, "A sighted person can look at a
>>> whole score and they can see where it's going" and a sighted person can
>> also
>>> look down the road while driving a car and see things like traffic
> signals
>>> and roadblocks.  The sense of sight allows people who have it to perceive
>>> objects without having to touch them.  The human eye can zoom in and zoom
>>> out.  The medium of print music notation matches the visual capabilities
>> of
>>> sighted people fairly well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But so what?  If we cannot see, we must find another way.  Certainly
>>> learning by ear is a coping strategy which I have used myself when
> braille
>>> scores were not available.  But learning by ear can remove us from the
>>> source of the information because we end up mimicking the interpretation
>> of
>>> whoever read that score and realized it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Louis Braille designed his ingenious music system to match how blind
>>> people perceive information by touch.  In a sense, we are always zoomed
> in
>>> to the braille character that fits beneath the tip of a finger.   The
>> medium
>>> of braille notation is well suited to how blind people acquire
> information
>>> tactually.  Linear presentation delivers information in a logical
>>> progression.  The order of braille music signs supports memorization.
>> Blind
>>> vocalists can actually read while singing but instrumentalists must
>> memorize
>>> the score before performing it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just as sighted musicians must synthesize score information into an
>>> internal picture of the score, so too must we blind musicians.  We all
>> must
>>> internalize the music before we can competently perform or analyze it.
> In
>>> other words, our brains must understand the music.  Print and braille
>> music
>>> notation are just different methods to deliver the information to our
>>> brains.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill McCann
>>>>>> President
>>>>>> Dancing Dots Braille Music Technology, L.P.
>>>>>> www.DancingDots.com
>>>>>> Tel:  610-783-6692
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Mary A. Walker
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:51 AM
>>>>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>>>>> Subject: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello Everyone!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am an elementary general and choral music teacher interested in
>>> learning how to read braille music.  I have two questions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1.  Do you have any course recommendations for braille music and/or
>>> teaching music to the visually impaired?  My colleague recommended the
>>> Hadley School for the Blind online course.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2.  In what context do students typically learn to read braille music?
>>> From a private music teacher?  A TVI?  Or a public school music teacher?
>> I
>>> recently read Laurie Rubin's book, hoping to gain insight into how to
> best
>>> support note reading in the classroom setting.  It was a great book but
>> she
>>> did not go into specifics related to note reading.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mary A. Walker
>>>>>> School #3 Music Teacher
>>>>>> Oceanside School District
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Menvi-discuss [menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Timothy Clark Music [timothyclarkmusic at me.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:10 AM
>>>>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>>>>> Subject: [Menvi-discuss] Fwd: [Members] I have four magic questions
> for
>>> you...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Timothy
>>>>>> Your friend in the music industry
>>>>>> http://www.timothyclarkmusic.tumblr.com
>>>>>> 7244011224
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: **Chris Rockett** <contact at promoteyourmusic.net>
>>>>>> Subject: [Members] I have four magic questions for you...
>>>>>> Date: January 13, 2013 12:21:20 AM EST
>>>>>> To: Timothy Clark Music <timothyclarkmusic at me.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just wanted to share a few questions I've started asking myself
>>>>>> every morning to stay on track...think they will help you too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here goes...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1) What five things must I do today to move my music career
>>>>>> forward?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2) Who do I need to speak to today who can help me
>>>>>> on the journey?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3) Who have I already reached out to and need to follow up with?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 4) What are the main things I must complete today,
>>>>>> no matter what? (Do this stuff first)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That's it!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Try and hold off looking in your email inbox until you have got the
>>>>>> most important things done, because your email will usually be full of
>>> a
>>>>>> bunch of stuff that other people want you to do and you suddenly
>>>>>> have no time left for yourself.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd love to hear some of your answers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Chris
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Founder of Music Marketing Classroom
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Flat 6 109 Warhouse Rd, London, SW8 9EP, UNITED KINGDOM
>>>>>> Unsubscribe | Change Subscriber Options
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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