[Menvi-discuss] Note reading

Debra Baxley debrabaxley at att.net
Thu Jan 17 18:07:44 EST 2013 

I didn't know what you transcribers went through!

Debra

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Bettie Downing
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:10 PM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading

Hey, I'm one of those sighted transcribers.



On Jan 17, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

> exactly Betty. fourth octave C is fourth octave C for you, no matter how
it is written for the sighted folks. Do you know how things are arranged for
them on the staff and what it actually means to have things written on a
different clef?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:46 PM 1/17/2013, you wrote:
>> Very funny, Brandon.  If you're reading it in braille the transcriber
already put it in readable and actual pitches.  The transcriber did the
transposing.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 10:46 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>> 
>> > Hello,
>> > I sight read just fine without learning the music ahead of time. We
actually just were introduced to alto clef and everyone followed me because
I was the best at reading in that arcane cleff!
>> 
>> >
>> > Of course I must see the format of the music before hand and trust
there are no signs I don't know, or jumps I can't make. I'm also horrible
when it comes to keeping within the right octave. I don't like moveable do
when Braille is written for the fixed do.
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >
>> > From: SClark6144 at aol.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:55 PM
>> > To: menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>> >
>> > For sight reading music, the blind student should always have the music
ahead of time to learn it.  My student who played violin did the sight
reading at contests with the other students, and we got the music ahead of
time so he could learn it.  They said he couldn't do it because he couldn't
see, so I had to fight for it, but I got the message across...it's done that
way in the UK also.  I figured if he felt he couldn't do it, he would
disqualify himself...no one should do that for him.
>> >
>> > In a message dated 1/16/2013 2:58:43 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
MWalker at oceansideschools.org writes:
>> > Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  I will share them with my TVI
and other colleagues.  I have taught students with a variety of special
needs over the years.  I have been teaching a student who is blind for the
past two and a half years in general music.  She is in a class with 22
sighted students.  I have done my best to give her the tools she will need
to be an independent musician, however we are at the point (3rd grade) where
the lessons progress into more complicated sight reading.  My student is
still learning to read literary braille so I understand the debate about
when to teach braille music very well.  The TVI in my building is a first
year teacher and doesn't have much experience with music.  We are trying to
navigate how and when it is appropriate to teach note reading.
>> >
>> > It is invaluable for me to hear what is done in other schools in order
to contribute to our discussion on how to handle note reading.  I'm not a
stickler for note reading but I believe that all of my students should be
taught to learn music both aurally and through reading for precisely the
reasons Mr. McCann stated when he said, "But learning by ear can remove us
from the source of the information because we end up mimicking the
interpretation of whoever read that score and realized it."  This is
precisely the reason why we teach note reading to any student.
>> >
>> > Thanks again for all of your input. I've already learned a great deal
since joining this group over the summer.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Mary A. Walker
>> > School #3 Music Teacher
>> > Oceanside School District
>> >
>> > From: Menvi-discuss [menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
SClark6144 at aol.com [SClark6144 at aol.com]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:00 PM
>> > To: menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>> >
>> > I wonder just how Laurie would notate music, other than linearly.  She
doesn't offer a better way.  I don't mean to be sarcastic, but a print
reader can see, and print music is a visual representation of sound.
Braille music is linear because the reader cannot see it.  When I did
research for my book, I found some examples of raised print music (the
pictures are in my book) that people had attempted to use for blind readers.
Obviously, that was not successful.  It's one thing to look at notes on a
staff and quite another to touch the whole picture (which is what it is) and
try to figure out what it is.
>> > Syl
>> >
>> > In a message dated 1/16/2013 1:36:52 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
bnbdowning70 at embarqmail.com writes:
>> > Amen to that!!
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 16, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Dale Lieser wrote:
>> >
>> > > Well stated, Bill.
>> > >
>> > > From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On
Behalf Of Bill
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:09 PM
>> > > To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
>> > > Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>> > >
>> > > Dear Ms. Walker,
>> > >
>> > > Here's a quote from an interview Laurie Rubin gave to the Wall Street
Journal blog:
>> > >
>> > > "There is braille notation, but I don't tend to use it. I came to
braille music very late. The thing that I don't like is that it's so linear,
and you're taking in everything piecemeal. A sighted person can look at a
whole score and they can see where it's going. When you're looking at
braille music, it's note by note by note. It just gives me the willies. It's
like putting thread through a needle. It's painstaking. I do most everything
by ear."
>> > >
>> > > So Miss Rubin would not seem to be a valuable source of encouragement
on the topic of note-reading in braille.  One excellent singer who
completely understands how braille music works and how to integrate it into
her own work is Jessica Bachicha.  I am not sure if she is a subscriber on
this MENVI listserv but I am sure that she is a member.  You should be able
to find her listed in the MENVI directory.  In addition, there are numerous
subscribers here who know a great deal about the subject as many of us are
blind musicians who have used braille music for a long time.  That is, you
have come to the right place to ask.  J
>> > >
>> > > An observation on Rubin's quote: yes, "A sighted person can look at a
whole score and they can see where it's going" and a sighted person can also
look down the road while driving a car and see things like traffic signals
and roadblocks.  The sense of sight allows people who have it to perceive
objects without having to touch them.  The human eye can zoom in and zoom
out.  The medium of print music notation matches the visual capabilities of
sighted people fairly well.
>> > >
>> > > But so what?  If we cannot see, we must find another way.  Certainly
learning by ear is a coping strategy which I have used myself when braille
scores were not available.  But learning by ear can remove us from the
source of the information because we end up mimicking the interpretation of
whoever read that score and realized it.
>> > >
>> > > Louis Braille designed his ingenious music system to match how blind
people perceive information by touch.  In a sense, we are always zoomed in
to the braille character that fits beneath the tip of a finger.   The medium
of braille notation is well suited to how blind people acquire information
tactually.  Linear presentation delivers information in a logical
progression.  The order of braille music signs supports memorization. Blind
vocalists can actually read while singing but instrumentalists must memorize
the score before performing it.
>> > >
>> > > Just as sighted musicians must synthesize score information into an
internal picture of the score, so too must we blind musicians.  We all must
internalize the music before we can competently perform or analyze it.  In
other words, our brains must understand the music.  Print and braille music
notation are just different methods to deliver the information to our
brains.
>> > >
>> > > Bill McCann
>> > > President
>> > > Dancing Dots Braille Music Technology, L.P.
>> > > www.DancingDots.com
>> > > Tel:  610-783-6692
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On
Behalf Of Mary A. Walker
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:51 AM
>> > > To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>> > > Subject: [Menvi-discuss] Note reading
>> > >
>> > > Hello Everyone!
>> > >
>> > > I am an elementary general and choral music teacher interested in
learning how to read braille music.  I have two questions.
>> > >
>> > > 1.  Do you have any course recommendations for braille music and/or
teaching music to the visually impaired?  My colleague recommended the
Hadley School for the Blind online course.
>> > >
>> > > 2.  In what context do students typically learn to read braille
music?  From a private music teacher?  A TVI?  Or a public school music
teacher?  I recently read Laurie Rubin's book, hoping to gain insight into
how to best support note reading in the classroom setting.  It was a great
book but she did not go into specifics related to note reading.
>> > >
>> > > Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!
>> > >
>> > > Thank you!
>> > >
>> > > Sincerely,
>> > >
>> > > Mary A. Walker
>> > > School #3 Music Teacher
>> > > Oceanside School District
>> > >
>> > > From: Menvi-discuss [menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Timothy Clark Music [timothyclarkmusic at me.com]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:10 AM
>> > > To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>> > > Subject: [Menvi-discuss] Fwd: [Members] I have four magic questions
for you...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Timothy
>> > >  Your friend in the music industry
>> > >  http://www.timothyclarkmusic.tumblr.com
>> > >  7244011224
>> > >
>> > > Begin forwarded message:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: **Chris Rockett** <contact at promoteyourmusic.net>
>> > > Subject: [Members] I have four magic questions for you...
>> > > Date: January 13, 2013 12:21:20 AM EST
>> > > To: Timothy Clark Music <timothyclarkmusic at me.com>
>> > >
>> > > Hey Guys,
>> > >
>> > > Just wanted to share a few questions I've started asking myself
>> > > every morning to stay on track...think they will help you too.
>> > >
>> > > Here goes...
>> > >
>> > > 1) What five things must I do today to move my music career
>> > > forward?
>> > >
>> > > 2) Who do I need to speak to today who can help me
>> > > on the journey?
>> > >
>> > > 3) Who have I already reached out to and need to follow up with?
>> > >
>> > > 4) What are the main things I must complete today,
>> > > no matter what? (Do this stuff first)
>> > >
>> > > That's it!
>> > >
>> > > Try and hold off looking in your email inbox until you have got the
>> > > most important things done, because your email will usually be full
of a
>> > > bunch of stuff that other people want you to do and you suddenly
>> > > have no time left for yourself.
>> > >
>> > > I'd love to hear some of your answers.
>> > >
>> > > - Chris
>> > >
>> > > --------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Founder of Music Marketing Classroom
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > .
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Flat 6 109 Warhouse Rd, London, SW8 9EP, UNITED KINGDOM
>> > > Unsubscribe | Change Subscriber Options
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
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>> >
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>> 
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