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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The BookShare model is a good idea, but as someone noted in an earlier post, transcribers are trying to make a living, so the best way to preserve their ability to earn income while increasing access would be to have a “Contact the Transcriber” option within any database so an inquiry could be sent to whoever has the braille files. The problem is that because the same works may have been transcribed by multiple people, even this workaround may prove contentious.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Steph<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eileen Scrivani via Menvi-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2024 9:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'<br><b>Cc:</b> etscrivani@verizon.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music XML resources<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>What about using bookshare.org as a model, but rather than being for literary works it would contain music. Anyone wanting access would pay a nominal annual fee to allow access to using and downloading scores. It would protect copyright laws and once something has been transcribed will cut down on continually re-transcribing and the associated costs and time involved.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Eileen <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Menvi-discuss <menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeanie Willis via Menvi-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 2, 2024 10:19 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy' <menvi-discuss@menvi.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Jeanie Willis <jeaniewillis@gmail.com>; 'Sarah Morley Wilkins' <sarah@sarahmorleywilkins.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music XML resources<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I hope that is a big soap box Steph as I think there are a number of us who are going to want to join you up there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I have a few thoughts and questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Is there any sort of professional body for transcribers who might be able to assist with such an endeavour, either in the maintaining of a database, getting feedback on how this would or wouldn’t work for transcribers, or even just getting the word out if such a project was begun as it would only work if it had the majority of transcribers onboard, otherwise it becomes another piece in an ever growing scattered load of resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>To add to the scattered bits of resources I have started compiling a database of all grade level piano works. So far it has all the individual pieces by composer from the ABRSM books available from their website, about ½ the RCM books that ‘I have been through as well as all the Trinity materials and some other books that I have had transcribed or scrounged. I think it is up to about 800 titles. I have posted it here and on a few other lists from time to time and will do again when I add some more. I would be happy to include in this any offerings from any transcribers if they gave me details of the works and how folks can contact them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think Michael’s idea of using something like github that anyone who wants to add titles can approach the organiser for a log-in and self add them would be great. I’m assuming the idea here is that this is just a list of the titles and where you can get them, not the works themselves. So there is no breaking of copyright and the transcribers can still choose how they distribute when people contact them. This also means that unlike most other resources this is not restricted in any way to only public domain music and has no international barriers. There would need to be some careful consideration of how to construct it for longevity if it becomes huge regarding searching/filtering and guidance on cataloguing/tagging.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This could be a wonderful addition to what is happening with ABC. The Accessible Books Consortium will if it is embraced open up blindness organisations around the world to share, but it does not include private transcribers unless they can work in with a library and are willing to donate some of what they have done. However, ABC seems to be slow progressing with many countries signing, but not pushing on with uploading their collections and little to no organisation to let other libraries know what has been newly added in the music area. I suspect it needs a librarian specially for music and I wonder if someone also needs to look at whether music xml could be included as a format.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I’m not sure if many of you are also aware of the Daisy Project that is largely behind many of these sorts of initiatives and is currently holding round tables and working groups with publishers and others related to making music more accessible. I’m not sure of the exact relationship, but they work closely with ABC, Sao Mai and MuseScore to try and open up mainstream pathways for us to have equal access to music.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Jeanie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Menvi-discuss <b>On Behalf Of </b>Noah Carver via Menvi-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 3, 2024 1:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> This is for discussing music and braille literacy <menvi-discuss@menvi.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Noah Carver <noahcarver494@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music XML resources<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>The question is: how do transcribers feel about such a resource? Would they be interested in contributing to it? If such a catalog could be created in a way which respects the needs of both music braille transcribers (for whom this is their livelihood) and users, putting together such a listing really should be done by someone.<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Noah Carver<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Candidate, B.M. '26 | Applied Music (Performance) -- Voice<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>Eastman School of Music | University of Rochester<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification" target="_blank"><span lang=EN-GB style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=65 height=65 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01DA6D52.99612F80" alt="Image removed by sender. JAWS Certified, 2024"></span></a><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><a href="tel:+12075579143" target="_blank">+1 (207) 557-9143</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><a href="mailto:noahcarver494@gmail.com" target="_blank">noahcarver494@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB>On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 5:45</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-GB>PM Stephanie Pieck via Menvi-discuss <<a href="mailto:menvi-discuss@menvi.org">menvi-discuss@menvi.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:50.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The ultimate dream would be to have an international database of things transcribers have already produced that could be searched by musicians looking for specific items. The musician could then contact the transcriber to ask about obtaining a copy. Too often, the same works get transcribed multiple times, which I think is a strain on the precious resource that is a braille music transcriber.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry for getting on my soapbox!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Steph</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Menvi-discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org" target="_blank">menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ella Yu via Menvi-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 02, 2024 4:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> This is for discussing music and braille literacy<br><b>Cc:</b> Ella Yu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music XML resources</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hey Stephanie, That's great to hear. That said, for better or for worse, over 95% of the braille scores currently available on IMSLP are being uploaded by a single person named Haipeng Hu, who hosts all his transcription work (including all the braille scores he uploaded to IMSLP so far) on <a href="http://brailleorch.org" target="_blank">brailleorch.org</a>. Is there any way to get more braille music transcribers or libraries for the blind to upload suitable public domain contents to IMSLP?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Another big issue is that the bulk of Haipeng's transcriptions are for orchestra or chamber ensemble. Because producing both full scores and performance parts per piece is too time consuming, and because Haipeng sources most of his MusicXML files from publishers, he is only able to publish full scores for ensemble music in braille format. This means that if someone wants just the first violin part for one of the orchestra scores he transcribed, the only way to get it is to contact him directly and ask for a MusicXML to convert yourself. I've gotten a few pieces of my needed orchestra music this way. This is, of course, a non-issue for solo piano or instrumental music.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I wish way more MusicXML/notation files were available on IMSLP. The thing is, IMSLP has allowed uploads of MusicXML/notation files for years. It's just that the vast majority of people who are uploading typeset PDFs to IMSLP are choosing to leave the corresponding notation files behind.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 1:27<span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>PM Stephanie Pieck via Menvi-discuss <<a href="mailto:menvi-discuss@menvi.org" target="_blank">menvi-discuss@menvi.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:50.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can report that IMSLP does now have over 600 braille scores and the list grows a little each day. I’ve already benefited from this resource, finding scores for several pieces I thought I’d have to get transcribed on my own.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Steph</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Menvi-discuss [mailto:<a href="mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org" target="_blank">menvi-discuss-bounces@menvi.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ella Yu via Menvi-discuss<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 02, 2024 12:56 PM<br><b>To:</b> This is for discussing music and braille literacy<br><b>Cc:</b> Ella Yu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Menvi-discuss] Music XML resources</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi, thanks for posting the list of websites offering music in MusicXML format compiled by the official MusicXML people. Unfortunately, I think the list is out of date, as a number of the websites on it are no longer available. Also, many of the websites on that list actually only offer a very small percentage of their material in XML format. For instance, I'd say less than 5% of material on IMSLP is available in MusicXML format, but interestingly, IMSLP recently started accepting braille music scores, which I posted about on this list back in January. I have not personally investigated the Choral Public Domain Library, but I suspect it is a fairly useful resource for accessible choral materials.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 6:39<span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>AM Stephanie Pieck via Menvi-discuss <<a href="mailto:menvi-discuss@menvi.org" target="_blank">menvi-discuss@menvi.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:50.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Recently there was a question about where to find scores in XML format The following link may be of use. This site lists several options for where to find XML scores. I hope this is helpful.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://www.musicxml.com/music-in-musicxml/" target="_blank">https://www.musicxml.com/music-in-musicxml/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Steph<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>---------<br><br>Thank you for subscribing to MENVI. Should you wish to unsubscribe, change your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view the list information page below. 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