[Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Wed Feb 13 19:13:06 UTC 2013

If you have the .gf file created by GOODFEEL, you can actually highlight the
file name, press the Applications Key or perform a right mouse click, arrow
down to "Open with" and select Duxbury.  Duxbury should recognize it as a
formatted braille file.  Simply open and press CONTROL+E to emboss.

I am running Duxbury Braille Translator version 11.1 which recognizes the
.gf file as formatted braille.  If older versions do not, simply rename the
file from .gf to .brf and it should work fine.  If your file is flute.gf
just rename it to flute.brf and Duxbury will open the .brf file without any
problem.

However, you can install the demo version of GOODFEEL as well as the Windows
Generic/Text-only printer and then emboss your .gf from within GOODFEEL.
Although the demo version will only transcribe 10 or so bars of any input
file and then stop, it has no limitation on embossing .gf files already
prepared.  

Run the unauthorized copy of GOODFEEL 

OK the message that tells you that GOODFEEL it is running in demo mode.

File | Open Braille File
Or
ALT+F, O

Tab to Emboss and press space bar.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Miranda
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:30 PM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi Bill,
To clarify, the reason I asked the second question is that I may have
Duxberry on my computer before I have the funds to purchase the Goodfeel
package. Essentially, how difficult is it to take a Goodfeel file given to
me by my Braille music transcriptionist and import it into Duxberry to
emboss?
Or, should I request another file format from my transcriptionist that may
be better suited for embossing?
Thanks again for all of your help, and have a wonderful week!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:30 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi, Miranda,

You asked:
> are there benefits to embossing directly from GOODFEEL versus 
> importing
from GOODFEEL to Duxbury? 

Yes.  For one thing, it is just much more convenient.  Unless you want to
significantly alter the braille that GOODFEEL produces, there is no need to
pass it through Duxbury or any other braille translation program in order to
emboss it.

> Also, I wonder if there are benefits to importing from GOODFEEL to 
> Duxbury
rather than embossing from GOODFEEL directly?

Unless I'm missing something, your second question seems like just another
way to ask your first question.  If not, please explain further.

James R. is correct.  You can certainly open the formatted braille file
which GOODFEEL creates in Duxbury or any other braille or text editor
program.  In my opinion though this should be a last resort.  Better to
revise your Lime file as much as you can first so that GOODFEEL creates the
desired braille in the first place.  For example, if you want to mark, say,
measure 25 as a rehearsal marker, open your piece in Lime, move to the
downbeat of bar 25, and press ALT+A, T, R and type in 25.  Press ESCAPE to
exit the edit field and save your rehearsal marker.  Instead of typing "25",
you can just as easily type in a short direction such as: "Listen for
clarinets" or whatever reminder text you need. 

Your rehearsal text will appear at the margin within the braille music word
sign, dots 3-4-5.  You can also experiment with GOODFEEL's embosser setup to
alter characters per line and lines per page which can sometimes resolve
awkward layout choices GOODFEEL may present.

> Lastly, if I have Duxbury installed on my computer and I wanted to 
> emboss
directly from GOODFEEL, would there be any interference?

No.  There should be no problem at all.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Miranda
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:46 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi,
Where could I get such a chart until I get a Braille display that I feel
would meet these needs?
Thanks so much, and have a great day!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Karen Gearreald
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:51 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

A braille display makes it infinitely easier for a totally blind computer
user to edit a Duxbury file, particularly if the file contains many
nonliterary symbols such as musical characters.  Without a braille display
you will need to listen very carefully as you move cell by cell.  Your
screen reader will probably voice the braille as ASCII characters; thus you
will need to know the ASCII equivalents for each braille combination.  A
tricky business, though not impossible!  A chart of the ASCII equivalents is
a huge benefit in this situation.
					Karen Gearreald

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Miranda
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:23 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi,
In order to edit such a file in Duxberry as someone who is completely blind,
do I need a Braille display attached to the computer?
Thanks so much for your help, and have a great week!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Risdon, James
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 3:48 AM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

And to follow up on Dani's point, Duxbury is a good friend of Goodfeel and
can be useful if you wish to tweak the Braille file you get. Before Bill
tells me off, Goodfeel does cater for most regional tastes of Braille music
formatting, but you may, for instance, want to add in your own rehearsal
notes or use your own preferred layout, in which case, simply navigate to
the .gf file, bring up the context menu with shift
+F10 and select "open with" and then choose Duxbury. Your file will
appear in all its glory in an editable state.
Cheers, James 

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Dani L Pagador
Sent: 13 February 2013 03:48
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi, Miranda.
I'll let Bill answer your first two questions.
Re your last one, having both programs on your computer and embossing from
GF will be fine--no interference or arguments from DBT.
HTH,
Dani 

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Miranda
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:45 PM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi,
Just to be curious, are there benefits to embossing directly from Goodfeel
versus importing from Goodfeel to Duxberry? Also, I wonder if there are
benefits to importing from Goodfeel to Duxberry rather than embossing from
Goodfeel directly?
Lastly, if I have Duxberry installed on my computer and I wanted to emboss
directly from Goodfeel, would there be any interference?
I do not yet have either of these programs at the moment, so please bare
with what may seem like very novis questions. I am asking for my future
reference.
Thanks for everyone's help, and have a wonderful week!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:29 PM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Yes, that would be possible.  However, if you have GOODFEEL, you can emboss
it directly without need for Duxbury or any other program.  GOODFEEL
requires that you install the Windows Generic/Text-only printer.

Best,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Miranda
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:24 PM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi,
Am I correct in assuming that it is possible to import a Goodfeel Braille
music file into Duxberry for Braille embossing?
Thanks, and have a wonderful week!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:02 PM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hello, Krystel and List Members,

Please write me off-list any time using my info at dancingdots.com address.
We
also have a contact form on our www.DancingDots.com site.  Krystel, I will
contact you off-list but here's some brief detail which I hope will be of
general interest.

We have not experimented with the Pearl camera but we have tried another
camera like it with mixed results.  We still recommend that GOODFEEL
customers who want to scan hardcopy print scores use any Twain-compatible,
flat-bed scanner.  Because the SharpEye Music Reader music OCR software uses
the scanning software that ships with your scanner to acquire the image of
the page, we like the Canon LIDE series because in addition to being an
excellent scanner for the price, the software interface works reasonably
well with JAWS and other screen readers.

OpenBook is an excellent choice for scanning text but if you try scanning
music with it, it will ignore the music notation and read any text it can
identify on the page.  Similarly, Duxbury does a great job on transcribing
print text to the equivalent literary braille but has no facility to convert
specialized music file formats into the equivalent braille music notation.
GOODFEELR is a suite of software that includes a few titles:
The SharpEye Music Reader, music OCR software Lime, a comprehensive software
editor for reading and writing music notation in print Lime Aloud, a set of
scripts that make JAWS for Windows compatible with Lime so that a JAWS user
can independently read and write music using verbal and musical cues while
scrolling through the piece note by note or chord by chord. Add a hardware
braille display and you can see the equivalent braille music on your display
for the print music displayed on the screen.

And the final component of the GOODFEEL suite is the GOODFEEL Braille Music
Translator itself which automatically converts Lime and MIDI files into the
equivalent braille music.  GOODFEEL also has its own literary translator
built in for transcribing score elements such as title, composer and lyrics.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Krystel Keller
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:09 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Sorry to send this message direct to the public list but I can't seem to get
Bill McCans email address directly from his message.
Bill I am in the process of obtaining funding to purchase a braille imbosser
for the purpus of braille music transcription. Is the only software Package
I need to purchase from dancing dots Good Feel? Do I need Lime and Sharp eye
as well to scan and transcribe music scores if I have a Pearl camera and
Open Book scanning software? Also could you please email me a quote to
krystelkeller at gmail.com for the necessary software. I already have a
computer with Jaws 12. Also the person preparing my request for funding
needs to know why a product like duxberry won't do the job for braille music
transcription. Could you give me a susinct paragraph that we can include in
the report for why Goodfeel is the more suitable product for braille music
transcription? Thanks Bill.
Again apologies for sending to the entire list.
Krystel. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2013 10:43 AM
To: 'This is for discussing music and braille literacy'
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

Hi,

Christina asked:

> Is there any blind person who has successfully been able to convert 
> their
own music from lime into good feel and all that?

Converting from Lime to GOODFEEL is quite straightforward.  If the music is
entered properly into the Lime notation software, the results from automatic
transcription by GOODFEEL will also be properly expressed in braille music.
Anyone who claims that his software is bug-free is either trying to mislead
others or delusional.  That being said, you will find that GOODFEEL does an
excellent job provided that the Lime file was prepared with care.

The not-so-straightforward path is creating that Lime file.  In order to do
so, you can scan the print score using the SharpEye Music Reader music OCR
software included with the GOODFEEL suite; you can import the score into
Lime using Lime's MusicXML import; or you can enter the score directly into
Lime using a mix of any or all of the PC keyboard, an electronic musical,
piano-style keyboard or the mouse for the light-dependent individuals among
us.   

Many blind people ask us why they cannot scan print scores independently.
The short answer is that you can, sometimes.  I have scanned numerous print
scores with SharpEye and encountered 0 errors.  I can then launch Lime from
SharpEye's menus, add the title text and name the parts, and pass that
information on to GOODFEEL for automatic transcription.  The difficulty
starts when SharpEye reports 1 or more "rhythm errors."  When that happens,
I have two major problems.  The first one, and the showstopper, is that I
cannot see the original print score in order to determine just what the
problem is.  For example, SharpEye is smart enough to tell me that there are
too many, or too few, beats in a particular measure based on the time
signature.  But, unless I know the piece really well, I cannot know which
note is too long, too short, or just plain missing.  Probably, if I did know
the piece that well, I would have no need to scan it in order to create an
accessible score to help me to learn it.

Even if I had a sighted assistant tell me that information, I encounter
problem number 2.  That is, SharpEye is a mainstream music OCR program
developed by a sighted developer for sighted users.  We at Dancing Dots did
not develop it but only bundle it with our own software to speed up data
acquisition.  The tools for editing score data in SharpEye are almost all
graphical in nature and usually involve issuing left or right mouse clicks,
dragging graphical objects around the screen, etc.

Bottom line, as Brandon pointed out, you really want to find a competent
sighted assistant to scan and prepare scores for you.  The good news is that
your assistant need not know anything at all about braille music, JAWS, or
such things.  He or she only needs to know how to read music in print and
how to use a PC.  As you know, there are many, many more people who can do
those things than who know how to transcribe music into braille the
"old-fashioned" way.  

BTW, we never intended or expected that GOODFEEL would replace those
wonderful people.  But we have seen that it can handle the vast majority of
beginner to intermediate level transcriptions.  Some transcribers have
learned to use GOODFEEL and related programs and have become good at
integrating their use into their work flow as appropriate.    BTW, as an
example of the level of music that we can transcribe, we have successfully
scanned and automatically transcribed some preludes and nocturnes of Chopin.

To learn more, please go to:
http://www.dancingdots.com/main/goodfeel.htm

HTH,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Menvi-discuss [mailto:menvi-discuss-bounces at menvi.org] On Behalf Of
Cristina Jones
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:23 PM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Cc: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Getting vocal scores into Lime

I am curious about the same thing. Is there any blind person who has
successfully been able to convert their own music from lime into good feel
and all that? I would love to know how to do this for the sake of being able
to analyze my own music, both the vocal line and the piano line.

Sincerely:
Cristina Jones
(714) 312-9889

On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:42 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm wondering if anyone has ever had their vocal pieces transcribed 
> into
lime?
> Also, are there transcribers who would be able to give me a Lime file 
> of
my piece as well as maybe the vocal line in Braille?
> In exploring what ways I learn best, I want to explore everything. If 
> I
had a lime file I could both analyze the piano part and export my vocal line
as a midi and get a somewhat accurate recording of the piano piece. I think
this will be much more use for me in the future, dealing with learning and
performing multiple songs a week without really practicing with a pianist
except maybe once before the performance. With the Braille I will also be
able to check the phrasing and whatnot.
> I'm wondering if anyone else has done this and I'd like to know how 
> they
liked it?
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
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