[Menvi-discuss] Ratio of readingVSlisteningwhenlearningvocalmusic?

Sun Feb 3 16:08:08 UTC 2013

Hello,
It is a personal choice, but that sounds about right on the music load. I am 
a little concerned about getting a full libretto for Wagner or any large 
Opera. I think I may need to figure something out that would be more 
efficient in the long run. Bryn Terfel always comments how he writes 
everything he is told by his directors down in his scores so when he goes 
back to relearn a part, he has some idea of staging for that character and 
thoughts for that character right there.
That would just be impractical for Braille. The first 7 scenes for the 
Marriage of Figaro are around 35 pages of Braille for just Figaro's part. 
I'm in a show now where the first scene is about one page of print for me to 
describe what I'm doing. This would be like 3 pages in Braille. There is no 
way using the required system of reading and writing in the score will work.
I'm going to see Laurie Rubin tomorrow, so I'll try to ask her what she does 
as a professional.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kelby Carlson
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 4:50 AM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of 
readingVSlisteningwhenlearningvocalmusic?

I have also had problems with mistranscribed notes, rhythms,
missing slurs, etc in my music which can cause just as many
problems as a nonprinted stylistic choice in a recording.  Again,
for me, it is a question primarily of efficiency.  Even if I got
really good at braille music, it is simply not efficient enough
for the amount of material I'm being asked to learn.  (If I
include the song cycle of 10 songs I'm doing with an oboeist, I
have twenty pieces on my list this semester, as well as around 8
for this choir concert and two major choral works for April; this
is not mentioning the religious music I also help with, or the
barbershop chorus and quartet I sing in.)

Kelby

----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
<menvi-discuss at menvi.org
Date sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 20:55:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading
VSlisteningwhenlearningvocalmusic?

Hi Kelby,

Agreed.  It's just too fast paced.  In a perfect world I would
like to
think I could use braille music more often than I do because
going off
of other people's recordings can sometimes get you into trouble
too if
they do something stylistic that isn't on the printed page, but
when
you need to play for juries and master classes and recitals it's
just
too much...  and this is coming from a second semester freshman
so I
can't imagine what it will be like when my pieces get harder and
longer.  It's a little scary to know I'm already preparing rep
for my
junior or senio recital and that all these concerti have to be as
near
perfect as possible within a year and a half.  There's no way I
would
be able to do it in time, let alone be ready for juries or master
classes, if I only used braille music.

On 2/2/13, kelby carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
I learn about a piece a week as well.  i know there is no way I
would
be able to do that with braille music alone--there are
recordings for
most things out there, and as along as I have thet text and an
audio
version of the notes it's not that difficult.  I think it's
valuable to
learn braille music, but right now using it would not be very
efficient for the requirements of my major.

On 2/2/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Brandon, Julie, and Others,
Sightreading the rhythms and pitches together is probably the
best way
to practice getting better at it as Julie said.  Rhythm is what
I
really have to think about too, so I tend to focus on the bottom
half
of the cell when reading more than the top half.  It just takes
a lot
of practice; I started teaching myself the summer between 7th
and 8th
grades, and I didn't get confident enough with reading my parts
for
band untiil about my sophomore year.  My senior year I took
theory,
and I remember feeling a little overwhelmed at the beginning of
the
year by the amount of braille I had thrown at me and worried
about how
long it would take me just to read through the homework.  But
that
daily exposure to braille music really helped me get solid in
reading
it and helped on my rhythm reading a lot.  Now I practice
sight-singing by slowly reading and singing out from the braille
and
that practice seems like it's working well too.  Just set the
metronome slow and work up from there.

I think the volume of braille music is another issue itself.  I
primarily use recordings to learn my solo pieces and then use
the
music to spot check for articulations or notes in a fast run.
Learning by braille music alone would take me about twice as
long as
it does now, and I think it would actually hinder me from
keeping up
with the demands of my major.  But then again it's a little
different
for instrumentalists because one single piece can be several
minutes
long, have a ton of crazy 16th note runs, etc.  However, one of
my
really good friends is studying to be an opera singer too, so I
see
the amount of rep she has to learn each semester and know it's a
lot
too, just broken up into different pieces as opposed to one or
two
multi-movement works.  I do, however, get all my music for
symphonic
wind ensemble brailled and although I do pick up a lot just from
playing in rehearsals I always have the music on a stand and use
it in
practicing as well.

On 2/2/13, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
I learn about a piece a week.  I mean that I learn it well
enough to
sing it in a master class.  I have to at this point because my
recital
is in less than two months, and I don't have all my pieces
learned.
It's also good to use your vocal coaching time to help you with
tricky
spots.  My voice teacher is also willing to help me out too if
I'm
having trouble with a rhythm or note.  I don't feel like I spend
too
long with a song.  If you start learning a piece, then you can
catch
on to patterns and things to make it easier.  Using the midi
wouldn't
be a bad idea.  I have my accompanist play my melody for me
sometimes,
which is the same idea.

On 2/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
My teacher wants me to knock out a piece a week before next
year.  Our
goal
is 6 pieces fully memorized by the end of my senior year.  So I
can't
spend
3

weeks on a piece, it is not working that way.
Currently it takes me 3 or 4 weeks to knock out a piece and my
teacher
is
just assigning more and more pieces.  She just assigned me to
learn 5
new
pieces today, 3 of which are Chamber music.
(It is hard being the only bass in the school)...  LOL
How long Julie do you spend on a piece?
Has anyone used Midi scores? I've tended to stay away from midi
music
because it is too hard to follow, but now I read music I may
want to
try
it

again.  IMSLP seems to have Midi pieces of most songs.  Not only
that,
but
we

could enter the note values into Lime and come out with a nice
midi of
our
own.
I can't wait till next quarter to take all this and really sit
down and
learn music! LOL...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:35 PM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading VS
listeningwhenlearningvocalmusic?

Hi Brandon,  I try to learn them together.  But if it's too
hard, then
I try to isolate the rhythm first.  Yes, I'll play it on the
piano.  I
don't play it well, but I can plunk it out.  Going a few
measures at a
time helps a lot.  If you try to look at too much too fast, it
will be
overwhelming.  Depending on how hard the piece is, it can take a
while.

On 2/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello Julie,
How do you use your Braille music? Do you just learn your
rhythms and
notes

together? or do you memorize the rhythm, then the notes or vice
versa?
Do
you get to the point to where you can play it on the piano?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:30 AM
To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading VS listening
whenlearningvocalmusic?

I usually use the braille music in combination with a recording.
I
have had my accompanist play my accompaniments on a recording.
Sometimes she plays my melody if it's a more difficult piece,
but
usually, she only plays the accompaniments.  Then it's up to me
to
figure out the song and how it fits into the accompaniment.

This method works really well for me, especially for my ability
to
read rhythms.  I have only been reading braille music for my
courses
for about three years.  It is very empowering to discover that
you can
learn music by either listening and using the braille.  IMO we
have an
advantage over sighted students once we learn to use braille
music
because we know what it's like to do without.  A lot of them are
very
dependent on their scores and could not imagine learning music
without
them, whereas even when we know braille music, we need to use
our
listening skills to learn sometimes when we don't get our music
on
time.  Sorry for the little rant.  :)

As for how to become a better sightreader, you should practice.
My
favorite professor says that all it takes is a few minutes a
day.  I
have the book music for sightsinging, and I do two melodies a
day.  I
also live in a world of braille music.  My piano, solo vocal,
and
choir music are all in braille right now.  It does take a while,
but
practicing does work.

On 2/2/13, Chris Smart <csmart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
sir, it would really help if I could ...  etc.

At 12:51 PM 2/2/2013, you wrote:
Well, you can speak English.  Tell him.

On Feb 2, 2013, at 11:28 AM, Kelsey Nicolay wrote:

Yeah, I knew there was probably no magic.  How would I go about
approaching my instructor to tell him to just let me sight read
through my rep? He feeas like he has to play the melody note for
note.  But I feel like if he continues to do that, I'll never
get
the hang of sight reading.

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--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
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John 3:16

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Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16

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--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16

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