[Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading VS listeningwhenlearningvocalmusic?

Sun Feb 3 01:55:09 UTC 2013

Hi Kelby,

Agreed.  It's just too fast paced.  In a perfect world I would like to
think I could use braille music more often than I do because going off
of other people's recordings can sometimes get you into trouble too if
they do something stylistic that isn't on the printed page, but when
you need to play for juries and master classes and recitals it's just
too much... and this is coming from a second semester freshman so I
can't imagine what it will be like when my pieces get harder and
longer.  It's a little scary to know I'm already preparing rep for my
junior or senio recital and that all these concerti have to be as near
perfect as possible within a year and a half.  There's no way I would
be able to do it in time, let alone be ready for juries or master
classes, if I only used braille music.

On 2/2/13, kelby carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I learn about a piece a week as well. i know there is no way I would
> be able to do that with braille music alone--there are recordings for
> most things out there, and as along as I have thet text and an audio
> version of the notes it's not that difficult. I think it's valuable to
> learn braille music, but right now using it would not be very
> efficient for the requirements of my major.
>
>
>
> On 2/2/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Brandon, Julie, and Others,
>> Sightreading the rhythms and pitches together is probably the best way
>> to practice getting better at it as Julie said.  Rhythm is what I
>> really have to think about too, so I tend to focus on the bottom half
>> of the cell when reading more than the top half.  It just takes a lot
>> of practice; I started teaching myself the summer between 7th and 8th
>> grades, and I didn't get confident enough with reading my parts for
>> band untiil about my sophomore year.  My senior year I took theory,
>> and I remember feeling a little overwhelmed at the beginning of the
>> year by the amount of braille I had thrown at me and worried about how
>> long it would take me just to read through the homework.  But that
>> daily exposure to braille music really helped me get solid in reading
>> it and helped on my rhythm reading a lot.  Now I practice
>> sight-singing by slowly reading and singing out from the braille and
>> that practice seems like it's working well too.  Just set the
>> metronome slow and work up from there.
>>
>> I think the volume of braille music is another issue itself.  I
>> primarily use recordings to learn my solo pieces and then use the
>> music to spot check for articulations or notes in a fast run.
>> Learning by braille music alone would take me about twice as long as
>> it does now, and I think it would actually hinder me from keeping up
>> with the demands of my major.  But then again it's a little different
>> for instrumentalists because one single piece can be several minutes
>> long, have a ton of crazy 16th note runs, etc.  However, one of my
>> really good friends is studying to be an opera singer too, so I see
>> the amount of rep she has to learn each semester and know it's a lot
>> too, just broken up into different pieces as opposed to one or two
>> multi-movement works.  I do, however, get all my music for symphonic
>> wind ensemble brailled and although I do pick up a lot just from
>> playing in rehearsals I always have the music on a stand and use it in
>> practicing as well.
>>
>> On 2/2/13, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I learn about a piece a week.  I mean that I learn it well enough to
>>> sing it in a master class.  I have to at this point because my recital
>>> is in less than two months, and I don't have all my pieces learned.
>>> It's also good to use your vocal coaching time to help you with tricky
>>> spots.  My voice teacher is also willing to help me out too if I'm
>>> having trouble with a rhythm or note.  I don't feel like I spend too
>>> long with a song.  If you start learning a piece, then you can catch
>>> on to patterns and things to make it easier.  Using the midi wouldn't
>>> be a bad idea.  I have my accompanist play my melody for me sometimes,
>>> which is the same idea.
>>>
>>> On 2/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> My teacher wants me to knock out a piece a week before next year. Our
>>>> goal
>>>> is 6 pieces fully memorized by the end of my senior year. So I can't
>>>> spend
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>> weeks on a piece, it is not working that way.
>>>> Currently it takes me 3 or 4 weeks to knock out a piece and my teacher
>>>> is
>>>> just assigning more and more pieces. She just assigned me to learn 5
>>>> new
>>>> pieces today, 3 of which are Chamber music.
>>>> (It is hard being the only bass in the school)... LOL
>>>> How long Julie do you spend on a piece?
>>>> Has anyone used Midi scores? I've tended to stay away from midi music
>>>> because it is too hard to follow, but now I read music I may want to
>>>> try
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> again. IMSLP seems to have Midi pieces of most songs. Not only that,
>>>> but
>>>> we
>>>>
>>>> could enter the note values into Lime and come out with a nice midi of
>>>> our
>>>> own.
>>>> I can't wait till next quarter to take all this and really sit down and
>>>> learn music! LOL...
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Julie McGinnity
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:35 PM
>>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading VS
>>>> listeningwhenlearningvocalmusic?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Brandon,  I try to learn them together.  But if it's too hard, then
>>>> I try to isolate the rhythm first.  Yes, I'll play it on the piano.  I
>>>> don't play it well, but I can plunk it out.  Going a few measures at a
>>>> time helps a lot.  If you try to look at too much too fast, it will be
>>>> overwhelming.  Depending on how hard the piece is, it can take a
>>>> while.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/2/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Julie,
>>>>> How do you use your Braille music? Do you just learn your rhythms and
>>>>> notes
>>>>>
>>>>> together? or do you memorize the rhythm, then the notes or vice versa?
>>>>> Do
>>>>> you get to the point to where you can play it on the piano?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Julie McGinnity
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:30 AM
>>>>> To: This is for discussing music and braille literacy
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Menvi-discuss] Ratio of reading VS listening
>>>>> whenlearningvocalmusic?
>>>>>
>>>>> I usually use the braille music in combination with a recording.  I
>>>>> have had my accompanist play my accompaniments on a recording.
>>>>> Sometimes she plays my melody if it's a more difficult piece, but
>>>>> usually, she only plays the accompaniments.  Then it's up to me to
>>>>> figure out the song and how it fits into the accompaniment.
>>>>>
>>>>> This method works really well for me, especially for my ability to
>>>>> read rhythms.  I have only been reading braille music for my courses
>>>>> for about three years.  It is very empowering to discover that you can
>>>>> learn music by either listening and using the braille.  IMO we have an
>>>>> advantage over sighted students once we learn to use braille music
>>>>> because we know what it's like to do without.  A lot of them are very
>>>>> dependent on their scores and could not imagine learning music without
>>>>> them, whereas even when we know braille music, we need to use our
>>>>> listening skills to learn sometimes when we don't get our music on
>>>>> time.  Sorry for the little rant.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>> As for how to become a better sightreader, you should practice.  My
>>>>> favorite professor says that all it takes is a few minutes a day.  I
>>>>> have the book music for sightsinging, and I do two melodies a day.  I
>>>>> also live in a world of braille music.  My piano, solo vocal, and
>>>>> choir music are all in braille right now.  It does take a while, but
>>>>> practicing does work.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/2/13, Chris Smart <csmart8 at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> sir, it would really help if I could ... etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 12:51 PM 2/2/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>>>Well, you can speak English.  Tell him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Feb 2, 2013, at 11:28 AM, Kelsey Nicolay wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Yeah, I knew there was probably no magic.  How would I go about
>>>>>>> approaching my instructor to tell him to just let me sight read
>>>>>>> through my rep? He feeas like he has to play the melody note for
>>>>>>> note.  But I feel like if he continues to do that, I'll never get
>>>>>>> the hang of sight reading.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your delivery, or set any other options
>>>>>>> available to you, please view the list information page
>>>>>>> below.  Should you have any questions, please contact the owner
>>>>>>> of the list.
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> > Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>>>> > http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to
>>>>>>>unsubscribe, change your delivery, or set any other options
>>>>>>>available to you, please view the list information page
>>>>>>>below.  Should you have any questions, please contact the owner of
>>>>>>>the list.
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>>>>http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> CTS MASTERING, affordable and professional mixing and mastering:
>>>>>> http://www.ctsmastering.com
>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/CTSMASTERING
>>>>>> BLOG: www.ctsmastering.com/blog
>>>>>> Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/chris-smart/46/824/536
>>>>>> Dropbox, Share Files Easily: http://db.tt/bQ2GuIt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>>>> change
>>>>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>>>>> contact
>>>>>> the owner of the list.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>> life."
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>>> change
>>>>>
>>>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>>>> the
>>>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>>>> contact
>>>>>
>>>>> the owner of the list.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>>> change
>>>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>>>> the
>>>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>>>> contact
>>>>> the owner of the list.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>> change
>>>>
>>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>>> the
>>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>>> contact
>>>>
>>>> the owner of the list.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>>> change
>>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>>> the
>>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>>> contact
>>>> the owner of the list.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>>> change
>>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view
>>> the
>>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>>> contact
>>> the owner of the list.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe,
>> change
>> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view the
>> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please
>> contact
>> the owner of the list.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Menvi-discuss mailing list
>> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
>> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>>
>
> Thank you for subscribing to MENVI.  Should you wish to unsubscribe, change
> your delivery, or set any other options available to you, please view the
> list information page below.  Should you have any questions, please contact
> the owner of the list.
> _______________________________________________
> Menvi-discuss mailing list
> Menvi-discuss at menvi.org
> http://menvi.org/mailman/listinfo/menvi-discuss_menvi.org
>

-- 
Kaiti